"When your parents are distant, for whatever reason, they tend to stay distant. This is the reality of aging. People often get more remote and strange as they get old, not less.".
Sadly true.
My father always been a distant person, as he got older, it really doesnt feel much different. He married and divorced several times so go figure.
I appreciate your perspective on honesty in the narrative vs marketability and financial success.
I actually felt similar dissonance on playing through It Takes Two and thinking... I bet they stay together, but I hardly think they would, or should. While I enjoyed the gameplay, the story didn’t seem to end honestly. Sometimes, an honest ending is sad, and sad is bad for sales.
I also resonate with publishing at imperfect piece of writing, just to get it out the door! We are often our harshest critics. Thanks for sharing.
Have you ever played the Deponia series? I find the main character in that to be a complete asshole to the point that I played the first entry and hated him, I tried the second hoping he would turn over a new leaf and become likeable but he stayed an asshole. I will never go back to play the third entry and I will think twice about any game made by the same developer due to that unlikeable character.
I've been on team "yes games are art" for like 20 years, and I think this is the first piece in the "well, it's at least complicated" direction I've seen that really updated on me about this. I like that this lays out constraints on what kind of art it's possible for various types of games to be.
That said, there's plenty of TV shows that are as long as God of War and are depressing and seem to be at least pretty popular. I notably haven't been eager to watch all of them, and Game of Thrones eventually veers towards the more power-fantasy-ish direction. (I admittedly haven't actually watched Breaking Bad or seen The Walking Dead through to completion)
It seems like in the case of God of War Ragnarok, the winning move would have been "let people indulge the fantasy of their distant parents changing, but, like, actually earn it". Which is, for sure, pretty hard. But it seems like this is mostly a question of writing chops. Parents do Ever At All change, but it takes particular circumstances. (weaving those circumstances in a game where you go around killin' all day is extra difficult, for sure)
It's better if the earning-it is somehow integrated into the player's choices, which seems like Extra Hard Mode, but I think even if it's mostly done in cinematics the player doesn't control, that still seems reasonable.
A recent relevant artpiece is Dungeons and Dragons, Honor Among Thieves (spoilers)
...
...
For the most part this was just a silly movie, but I was quite surprised that they showed a degree of emotional depth in "father learns to not only realize he wasn't doing a thing for his child he claimed to be doing for his child, but also realized a somewhat subtle thing about how his child's relationship with his wife was different from his own."
I don't think the D&D super-earned this degree of realization from the character, but, it's the kind of actual emotional update that I think a serious fatherhood movie needs in order to feel like a Good Ending got earned.
There's a place for video games to be High Art, but you're quite right that High Art is not something that the common person is going to enjoy all the time.
I've played a few games I think were High Art or at least pretty damn close for the medium: Disco Elysium, SOMA, Call of Cthulhu - Dark Corners of the Earth, Metal Gear Solid 3.
Call of Cthulhu had some horrible rough edges but in general for the time I thought all of them were quality entertainment, too. All of those games are also horribly depressing and one has provoked existential crises in a large number of people.
Most of the time though, I want something fun and enjoyable that leaves me feeling I left the world of the game at least a little better off than it was, and that's why even though I know people don't really change very often I would like to see things like Kratos changing for the better. I do think there's _room_ for both kinds of experiences, but being honest I'm going to want the sappy feel good power fantasy more often than the high art depressing or super thought provoking game.
"Some also dream of using video games for political commentary."
Wait. Are Spiderweb games not intended as political commentary? I tend to view nearly everything you make as several steps above average on the ol' politically-charged-ometer, and the Avadon and Queen's Wish games more overtly so.
I am truly trying to depict how I see humans are, but not to comment on it. Whenever I write a character/nation/faction, I try to put myself in their shoes and let them explain themselves in the most flattering way possible.
There are different layers to political commentary. On the one hand, there are creators that make a character that's OBVIOUSLY supposed to be Trump, then write a plot just to make you hate that character. Those games are generally crap. (And with the politics reversed, they would still be crap.)
Spiderweb games work on timeless political themes, such as Empire and State, and the difficult compromises that rulers have to make to maintain peace. These were issues faced by the first cities, through today, and will still be with us when we colonize the galaxy. These tend to leave players realizing how difficult and complex the problems of politics really are.
"In 2016, humanity reached peak Sad Video Game. I think it will never be equaled."
You should not challenge the Devil like that!
"When your parents are distant, for whatever reason, they tend to stay distant. This is the reality of aging. People often get more remote and strange as they get old, not less.".
Sadly true.
My father always been a distant person, as he got older, it really doesnt feel much different. He married and divorced several times so go figure.
I appreciate your perspective on honesty in the narrative vs marketability and financial success.
I actually felt similar dissonance on playing through It Takes Two and thinking... I bet they stay together, but I hardly think they would, or should. While I enjoyed the gameplay, the story didn’t seem to end honestly. Sometimes, an honest ending is sad, and sad is bad for sales.
I also resonate with publishing at imperfect piece of writing, just to get it out the door! We are often our harshest critics. Thanks for sharing.
Have you ever played the Deponia series? I find the main character in that to be a complete asshole to the point that I played the first entry and hated him, I tried the second hoping he would turn over a new leaf and become likeable but he stayed an asshole. I will never go back to play the third entry and I will think twice about any game made by the same developer due to that unlikeable character.
I've been on team "yes games are art" for like 20 years, and I think this is the first piece in the "well, it's at least complicated" direction I've seen that really updated on me about this. I like that this lays out constraints on what kind of art it's possible for various types of games to be.
That said, there's plenty of TV shows that are as long as God of War and are depressing and seem to be at least pretty popular. I notably haven't been eager to watch all of them, and Game of Thrones eventually veers towards the more power-fantasy-ish direction. (I admittedly haven't actually watched Breaking Bad or seen The Walking Dead through to completion)
It seems like in the case of God of War Ragnarok, the winning move would have been "let people indulge the fantasy of their distant parents changing, but, like, actually earn it". Which is, for sure, pretty hard. But it seems like this is mostly a question of writing chops. Parents do Ever At All change, but it takes particular circumstances. (weaving those circumstances in a game where you go around killin' all day is extra difficult, for sure)
It's better if the earning-it is somehow integrated into the player's choices, which seems like Extra Hard Mode, but I think even if it's mostly done in cinematics the player doesn't control, that still seems reasonable.
A recent relevant artpiece is Dungeons and Dragons, Honor Among Thieves (spoilers)
...
...
For the most part this was just a silly movie, but I was quite surprised that they showed a degree of emotional depth in "father learns to not only realize he wasn't doing a thing for his child he claimed to be doing for his child, but also realized a somewhat subtle thing about how his child's relationship with his wife was different from his own."
I don't think the D&D super-earned this degree of realization from the character, but, it's the kind of actual emotional update that I think a serious fatherhood movie needs in order to feel like a Good Ending got earned.
There's a place for video games to be High Art, but you're quite right that High Art is not something that the common person is going to enjoy all the time.
I've played a few games I think were High Art or at least pretty damn close for the medium: Disco Elysium, SOMA, Call of Cthulhu - Dark Corners of the Earth, Metal Gear Solid 3.
Call of Cthulhu had some horrible rough edges but in general for the time I thought all of them were quality entertainment, too. All of those games are also horribly depressing and one has provoked existential crises in a large number of people.
Most of the time though, I want something fun and enjoyable that leaves me feeling I left the world of the game at least a little better off than it was, and that's why even though I know people don't really change very often I would like to see things like Kratos changing for the better. I do think there's _room_ for both kinds of experiences, but being honest I'm going to want the sappy feel good power fantasy more often than the high art depressing or super thought provoking game.
"Some also dream of using video games for political commentary."
Wait. Are Spiderweb games not intended as political commentary? I tend to view nearly everything you make as several steps above average on the ol' politically-charged-ometer, and the Avadon and Queen's Wish games more overtly so.
I am truly trying to depict how I see humans are, but not to comment on it. Whenever I write a character/nation/faction, I try to put myself in their shoes and let them explain themselves in the most flattering way possible.
There are different layers to political commentary. On the one hand, there are creators that make a character that's OBVIOUSLY supposed to be Trump, then write a plot just to make you hate that character. Those games are generally crap. (And with the politics reversed, they would still be crap.)
Spiderweb games work on timeless political themes, such as Empire and State, and the difficult compromises that rulers have to make to maintain peace. These were issues faced by the first cities, through today, and will still be with us when we colonize the galaxy. These tend to leave players realizing how difficult and complex the problems of politics really are.
I was so disappointed with this game that I started my own Substack just so I could have somewhere to complain about it:
https://joshtatter.substack.com/p/i-survived-ragnarok-and-all-i-got