Just posted this on Twitter and I think it's a nice coda to this post ...
With feedback for our new game, Queen's Wish 2, I'll totally ignore you if you say, "Oh you're coasting and don't care. It's the same old stuff."
Like or hate them, this trilogy is doing LOTS of new stuff and feel unlike every other RPG. For my final series, I'm giving 100%.
I've found that, when we do weird stuff, it takes years for them to catch on. Our Avadon games got a lot of flak when new, and they still sell great.
It's cool. If you like RPGs but don't like Queen's Wish, try it again in 5 years. You will be surprised.
(And, for the record, I think the Queen's Wish games are truly unique and a little bit brilliant. They're also weird. Sometimes, it takes time for weird to catch on.)
After this is all over and you start your "going on tour and playing the hits" phase of your career...
What I'd really love to see is an epic Exile/Avernum 1-6 epic all-in-one game that you can play back-to-back all the way through, in the same (modernised) engine. Kind of like Mass Effect Legendary Edition. Of course the game would cost $150 since there's six of them, but maybe you could do the modern day in-app purchase thing.
That said, my point is diluted due to (sidetrack alert!) I've bought most of your games but haven't played many. Like many of your customers. I just checked the Steam achievement stats for Avadon 1, apparently only 40.4% of players have done the "walk out of the starting room and talk to the guy with the red beard" achievement...
Which is to say, many people buy your game as a collectable and as a vague "I swear I will play this one day, when I get the time. Just like these other 100 games in Steam". This will be unsatisfying for the artist side of your brain, but an opportunity for the business side of your brain. (Edit: the other thing I must confess is: most of your games I bought on Steam sales, not at full price.)
Or put another way, I'm not saying you should go into NFTs, I'm saying you already have‽
The one thing I still wish to see in all Spiderweb games is (possibly optional) suggested appropriate character level ratings on quests. It's a drag to try quests that are only in hindsight clearly overlevel and blow a lot of time reloading and/or backtracking.
Congrats Jeff. I've purchased the game, of course, because why wouldn't I?
I started playing your games back in grad school - the original Exile:Escape from the Pit. It came on a CD stuck to the cover of a Mac magazine, along with Fantasoft's 'Realmz' (remember that?). Good times. Anyway. I have the Avadon series and QW1 tucked away somewhere, and I'll get around to them eventually.
I guess we're of similar age, and similarly worn down by life, so I'm looking forward to a 'Blades' remaster for modern Macs. Well, hoping for one, anyway. I can think of no better way of pottering about in retirement.
I sometimes wonder/hope he’ll sell his company to someone who will carry on with developing new games in the same style. Then again, Jeff’s writing talent is part of the secret sauce, and that isn’t a dime-a-dozen in the indie market.
Just to tell, I loved the demo of Queen's Wish 2. There I was trying a lot of games on the new steam deck some months ago when that indie festival took place so I tried the demo... 10h later I had everything explorered!!
So now I installed QW1 and want to start from the beginning. I got the first one but, with reviews and all, I never actually started to play it ... my mistake.
About the choices, they're fine I think, sometimes I choose a more "good" one, then to see it actually jeoperdizes my family's empire and it's suddenly clear nothing is black and white here. But the interactons are good. I loved that on making a different choice than that of status quo, I got a "call" from my mother saying "that's probably not the best, but you're in charge now and let's, maybe it works, I'll let you do it like that as an experiment..." or something like this.
Before I only played Geneforge saga, which I'm eager for the next remakes.
Congratulations! I'm going to buy and play QW2 right after I finish my playthrough of Solasta's big DLC, which probably won't be for a few more weeks, but your game is definitely is the next one I will play. Fortunately, I found a way to pay for it, too, with only a small-ish commission.
I have my reservations about combat of QW1, so I'm eager to see what changed. And I certainly want to see how the story develops - themes of your games are the best CRPG world has to offer, for me, nothing else even comes close.
It was long enough ago, so I might mis-remember things, but I remember incredible number or mobs having stunning or charming attacks, and little ways to defend against them, so I spent a lot of time watching the game play itself as my party skipped its turns. With attack animations slower than in other Spiderweb games, it was pure torture, even though I was able to defeat the enemies ultimately.
It is my firm opinion that enemies should only rarely have abilities that make you skip turns (I'd restrict it to some bosses), because it makes combat extremely un-fun. Even if there is a way to build your party to mitigate the worst of it, purely by chance non-optimal builds will suffer a lot of skipped turns, and this is a Very Bad Thing. Even outright quick defeat isn't as infuriating as watching the game play with itself, with no chance of input from player.
(Party, on the other hand, can have stunning abilities, because AI doesn't mind and usually have advantage in numbers anyway, so they play an important part in crowd control)
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do without my bi-yearly new Spiderweb game.
Okay, so I didn't like Avadon. I really didn't like QW1, because of the art, the storytelling and the mechanics.
I still bought every single one of these games (including QW2, which I'm playing right now), usually in several versions ever since the Exile series.
I can't wait for the Blades of Exile remake. I can't wait to see what you have in store in 20 years for the.... fifth? remake of Exile 3, the best of them all.
I'll be there. I'll be playing it, I'll be rereading all these stories, I'll be buying it in the first week of release.
Also, I'm now in game design myself because of you, really. Because of your blog posts, because of your attitude, because of your games.
Something I loved about Avadon was how your party members were fully fleshed out characters you could interact with. I will never forget the spunky mage Nathalie. So I hope I get to live to see more of your RPGs explore unique party members. I like how the mirrors gave me a small taste of this sort of interaction with the royal family in QW2, these 3 family members are characters I've come to enjoy quite a bit, too.
Very long-time player, first-time reader of the blog. I'm sad to hear QW is likely your last RPG, I actually think it's one of the best and I can see the innovations you've made over the years. While the #1 thing is, as always, the great writing, gray area decisions, and engaging areas and combats, you've clearly thought carefully about designing this style of game
--> The Rokaj is a complex area with common threads. It's easy for outsiders (Haven) to stereotype it, but they approach difficult questions of culture and vassalage in human ways (e.g., are the Gentle Coasters "less" Rokaj?)
--> Choices from previous games matter (a lot)
--> Combat is rebalanced to make melee viable (so I don't have to be at max range to avoid 1-hit KO AOE attacks)
--> The "finish the whole dungeon or it resets" dynamic makes a lot of sense and should be the default for most games. It's lame how in a lot of games you defeat some enemies, then go have a bath and long sleep, and come back and find the other half obliviously waiting for you
--> QOL stuff: junk items (e.g., paper) don't have to be manually sold, I can focus on the story
It probably wasn't me, lol. I mailed to ask if there really was no 3rd choice. I still feel like the big bad empire can force people to peace. The British kind of did that between the Shona and Ndebele.
it’s wild to think i’ve been playing your games since I was 8. since i’m also from the south sound area your games were always a hit among my groups of friends. so happy there’s a little more gas left for this ride.
Hopefully this doesn't come across as impatient, but I noticed that the game is available on Steam, but i haven't received an email with a key yet (from the kickstarter). Have those emails already gone out?
Just posted this on Twitter and I think it's a nice coda to this post ...
With feedback for our new game, Queen's Wish 2, I'll totally ignore you if you say, "Oh you're coasting and don't care. It's the same old stuff."
Like or hate them, this trilogy is doing LOTS of new stuff and feel unlike every other RPG. For my final series, I'm giving 100%.
I've found that, when we do weird stuff, it takes years for them to catch on. Our Avadon games got a lot of flak when new, and they still sell great.
It's cool. If you like RPGs but don't like Queen's Wish, try it again in 5 years. You will be surprised.
(And, for the record, I think the Queen's Wish games are truly unique and a little bit brilliant. They're also weird. Sometimes, it takes time for weird to catch on.)
After this is all over and you start your "going on tour and playing the hits" phase of your career...
What I'd really love to see is an epic Exile/Avernum 1-6 epic all-in-one game that you can play back-to-back all the way through, in the same (modernised) engine. Kind of like Mass Effect Legendary Edition. Of course the game would cost $150 since there's six of them, but maybe you could do the modern day in-app purchase thing.
That said, my point is diluted due to (sidetrack alert!) I've bought most of your games but haven't played many. Like many of your customers. I just checked the Steam achievement stats for Avadon 1, apparently only 40.4% of players have done the "walk out of the starting room and talk to the guy with the red beard" achievement...
Which is to say, many people buy your game as a collectable and as a vague "I swear I will play this one day, when I get the time. Just like these other 100 games in Steam". This will be unsatisfying for the artist side of your brain, but an opportunity for the business side of your brain. (Edit: the other thing I must confess is: most of your games I bought on Steam sales, not at full price.)
Or put another way, I'm not saying you should go into NFTs, I'm saying you already have‽
The one thing I still wish to see in all Spiderweb games is (possibly optional) suggested appropriate character level ratings on quests. It's a drag to try quests that are only in hindsight clearly overlevel and blow a lot of time reloading and/or backtracking.
Still, congrats on getting QW2 out the door!
Congrats Jeff. I've purchased the game, of course, because why wouldn't I?
I started playing your games back in grad school - the original Exile:Escape from the Pit. It came on a CD stuck to the cover of a Mac magazine, along with Fantasoft's 'Realmz' (remember that?). Good times. Anyway. I have the Avadon series and QW1 tucked away somewhere, and I'll get around to them eventually.
I guess we're of similar age, and similarly worn down by life, so I'm looking forward to a 'Blades' remaster for modern Macs. Well, hoping for one, anyway. I can think of no better way of pottering about in retirement.
The prospect of a world with no new Vogel franchises is a bit sad 😢
I sometimes wonder/hope he’ll sell his company to someone who will carry on with developing new games in the same style. Then again, Jeff’s writing talent is part of the secret sauce, and that isn’t a dime-a-dozen in the indie market.
This is the truth. It's art. Like them or hate them, only Jeff Vogel can write a Jeff Vogel game.
Just to tell, I loved the demo of Queen's Wish 2. There I was trying a lot of games on the new steam deck some months ago when that indie festival took place so I tried the demo... 10h later I had everything explorered!!
So now I installed QW1 and want to start from the beginning. I got the first one but, with reviews and all, I never actually started to play it ... my mistake.
About the choices, they're fine I think, sometimes I choose a more "good" one, then to see it actually jeoperdizes my family's empire and it's suddenly clear nothing is black and white here. But the interactons are good. I loved that on making a different choice than that of status quo, I got a "call" from my mother saying "that's probably not the best, but you're in charge now and let's, maybe it works, I'll let you do it like that as an experiment..." or something like this.
Before I only played Geneforge saga, which I'm eager for the next remakes.
Many thanks!
JM
Congratulations! I'm going to buy and play QW2 right after I finish my playthrough of Solasta's big DLC, which probably won't be for a few more weeks, but your game is definitely is the next one I will play. Fortunately, I found a way to pay for it, too, with only a small-ish commission.
I have my reservations about combat of QW1, so I'm eager to see what changed. And I certainly want to see how the story develops - themes of your games are the best CRPG world has to offer, for me, nothing else even comes close.
I’m curious what you didn’t like about QW1’s combat. I played a fair bit of it and the combat was one of the parts I liked the best.
It was long enough ago, so I might mis-remember things, but I remember incredible number or mobs having stunning or charming attacks, and little ways to defend against them, so I spent a lot of time watching the game play itself as my party skipped its turns. With attack animations slower than in other Spiderweb games, it was pure torture, even though I was able to defeat the enemies ultimately.
It is my firm opinion that enemies should only rarely have abilities that make you skip turns (I'd restrict it to some bosses), because it makes combat extremely un-fun. Even if there is a way to build your party to mitigate the worst of it, purely by chance non-optimal builds will suffer a lot of skipped turns, and this is a Very Bad Thing. Even outright quick defeat isn't as infuriating as watching the game play with itself, with no chance of input from player.
(Party, on the other hand, can have stunning abilities, because AI doesn't mind and usually have advantage in numbers anyway, so they play an important part in crowd control)
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do without my bi-yearly new Spiderweb game.
Okay, so I didn't like Avadon. I really didn't like QW1, because of the art, the storytelling and the mechanics.
I still bought every single one of these games (including QW2, which I'm playing right now), usually in several versions ever since the Exile series.
I can't wait for the Blades of Exile remake. I can't wait to see what you have in store in 20 years for the.... fifth? remake of Exile 3, the best of them all.
I'll be there. I'll be playing it, I'll be rereading all these stories, I'll be buying it in the first week of release.
Also, I'm now in game design myself because of you, really. Because of your blog posts, because of your attitude, because of your games.
Something I loved about Avadon was how your party members were fully fleshed out characters you could interact with. I will never forget the spunky mage Nathalie. So I hope I get to live to see more of your RPGs explore unique party members. I like how the mirrors gave me a small taste of this sort of interaction with the royal family in QW2, these 3 family members are characters I've come to enjoy quite a bit, too.
Very long-time player, first-time reader of the blog. I'm sad to hear QW is likely your last RPG, I actually think it's one of the best and I can see the innovations you've made over the years. While the #1 thing is, as always, the great writing, gray area decisions, and engaging areas and combats, you've clearly thought carefully about designing this style of game
--> The Rokaj is a complex area with common threads. It's easy for outsiders (Haven) to stereotype it, but they approach difficult questions of culture and vassalage in human ways (e.g., are the Gentle Coasters "less" Rokaj?)
--> Choices from previous games matter (a lot)
--> Combat is rebalanced to make melee viable (so I don't have to be at max range to avoid 1-hit KO AOE attacks)
--> The "finish the whole dungeon or it resets" dynamic makes a lot of sense and should be the default for most games. It's lame how in a lot of games you defeat some enemies, then go have a bath and long sleep, and come back and find the other half obliviously waiting for you
--> QOL stuff: junk items (e.g., paper) don't have to be manually sold, I can focus on the story
Does Epic Game Store generate any sales?
What's an example of some 'less cowardly' things you could have done regarding empire? Changing blessed vs trench to race vs race?
I didn't quit! ;)
It probably wasn't me, lol. I mailed to ask if there really was no 3rd choice. I still feel like the big bad empire can force people to peace. The British kind of did that between the Shona and Ndebele.
it’s wild to think i’ve been playing your games since I was 8. since i’m also from the south sound area your games were always a hit among my groups of friends. so happy there’s a little more gas left for this ride.
Do you recommend that the Conqueror be played first for the storyline or are the game's stories relatively independent?
They're pretty independent. You can totally play 2 without trying 1.
Hopefully this doesn't come across as impatient, but I noticed that the game is available on Steam, but i haven't received an email with a key yet (from the kickstarter). Have those emails already gone out?
They have gone out. Check your spam filter.
Ah, I got it. Not in spam but I didn't realize the email was sent through Humble Bundle. Thanks, and can't wait to play!!