Great review. I'll put this one on the shelf with Wheel of Time and GoT for "stuff that could have been cool but I probably won't ever watch (or wish I hadn't watched, in the case of GoT)."
You and Paul Kingsnorth are my two favorite substackers, both writing greatly informative stuff with surprisingly similar insights about vastly different topics and from vastly different backgrounds.
And here: ‘ He spend years creating infinite background material before writing the actual books, and you felt it.’ Should be ‘spent’. Sorry to be the typo police. I love this article and want it to be perfect. And I’m also a Virgo…
Gosh I’m really enjoying the show! Unrelated but I’m also really enjoying Queens Wish 2. In both cases I think the writing is great. Good article even if I don’t agree, points well made!
Thanks. You hit the target right on. Good fantasy is not about swords and cloths and orcs. It is about worldviews. If you lack the culture, or experience to invent a different worldview, no amount of CGI will do it.
Thanks. You hit the target right on. Good fantasy is not about swords and cloths and orcs. It is about worldviews. If you lack the culture, or experience to invent a different worldview, no amount of CGI will do it.
I respectfully disagree with you as well as many folks claiming for the show to adhere strictly to Tolkien's source.
As many praise Peter Jackson's original trilogy, don't get me wrong, i do love them, but they had also adaptations to Peter Jackson's vision of how he wanted to tell the story. And yet many of the same people are bashing the show because it's being adapted.
I do consider myself adept with not just LOTR or hobbit literature, but silmarillion's. And while the show has taken its own path, i do welcome it and have found it very enjoyable, such as the original trilogy, i already know whats it about, but i will watch it again and still get thrilled.
Seeing new content with a different storyteller it's refreshing as I'm waiting to discover new twists. There is a lot of context i would like to be explained as I'm seeing the show and i get my nerd needing to explain who or what they are talking about and the huge relevance, i do miss the epic soundtrack, but i somehow feel this is Tolkien lending his pages for it to be continued, such as Bilbo did with Frodo, and Frodo with Sam. But if I'm just needing the same peter Jackson feel from this new content, i will end up praising peter Jackson and not Tolkien, and not moving on to a new adventure.
Obviously, there has to be a profit out of the huge amounts of money used for it, it is a business, so be it, else I'll start my crowd funding so I can get a show purely from Tolkien's reference. And besides the huge challenge that it takes as silmarillion is mostly a huge thesaurus of references for his master work to culminate in LOTR, he even attempted a sequel, and ended giving up as the master piece was done and not much could be added.
But as said initially, this is in the spirit of having a healthy dialogue with a fellow fan with a different opinion from this show, and no, i will not make fun or throw back hate at you.
So that you don't say I'm just throwing peter Jackson's adaptations out of thin air, in example, isildur's story from the prologue, that was not how it was written, he was not corrupted by the ring, and he was killed while he was travelling to give the ring to Elrond as he couldn't wield and master it and rather hoped for someone wiser to do it, so much for respecting Isildur imo, but "purists" claim now that Isildur went evil.
I wasn’t going to watch it because I assumed I wouldn’t like it (I’m a Tolkien fan), but what the hell. I turned on the first episode last week.
I made it until the troll fight. I thought it was watchable until then. Once I hit the troll fight, though, I thought (apparently correctly): “yeah, this is what I was expecting. Forget it.”
It’s a shame it’s not any good, but I’m glad to see I’m not crazy. I didn’t know how the show was generally received - outside of Substack, there aren’t really any critics left worth reading - so it’s nice to read some confirmation.
I would be cautious about dismissing the racist fan element as "8 trolls on Twitter". Have a quick read of metacritic reviews and you'll see plenty of complaints about "enforced diversity" and "woke agendas," the fact is a lot of "fans" have an issue seeing non white actors (or actors who can't pass as white) in their Tolkien.
I personally think representation of diversity in our media is important, and I don't care that much about rigid faithfulness to the source material either, as long as the end result is good and broadly in the spirit of the original.
Unfortunately the end result in this case is definitely not good. I get quite a Star Wars prequels feeling from Rings of Power - sumptuous visuals let down by half baked plots, bad pacing, incoherent logic and clumsy dialogue.
Writing this series would have been a massive task, and the writers were simply not up to the job. All that obscene budget is just wasted because they couldn't get the basics right, unforgivable.
Yea it’s a poorly written show but I’m still hate watching it because I want to see Isildur cut a dude’s ring off. But one note:
“three generations later everyone in that village would be brown”
In our world yes, but this is a work of fiction, and fantasy no less. Skin tones can work any way the writers want. They don’t have to be based on our genetics. They don’t have to be based on genetics at all. They just have to be consistent with the rest of the world. This rationalization is just one more of the type of argument that the racist reactionaries use.
I’m always hesitant to read American fantasy writing - of course it usually has the problem where they just write Tolkien again, but besides not knowing where to get more material to keep it original, they also can’t recreate his “voice” let alone get a better one. So it ends up being childish or obviously their D&D game or just not taking itself seriously like you mentioned here.
British writers are better I think; they’re at least likely to have read the same source material Tolkien did and know what a fairy tale feels like. And not to say it’s all bad, I mean I think your stories were always pretty good!
As for the hobbits’ skin tone, I personally don’t care (it reminds me of that Cinderella movie where all the actors were totally random ethnicities), but genetically almost anything is possible. Like if they were cat-people, they could all have different color or patchwork coats like cats do. Wait, are there tortoiseshell Nephilim?
(Humans living in one area tend to be similar skin tones not because they’re related but because we hadn’t invented sunscreen/multivitamins yet so natural selection found the local optimum tone. Maybe hobbits don’t need Vitamin D.)
Recognizing and respecting the fact that we all have different tastes, opinions, and preference, and that we don't all have to agree with each other, I am still surprised that people uphold Dune as a good book. I listened to the first 3 Dune books and am sad that I can never get those wasted hours back.
The 3 books were rife with major plot holes. Paul, the main character, is COMPLETELY unrelatable. His decisions lacked common sense nor did they make sense within the Dune world and culture. The author upholds Paul as the hero in one book, yet, without any context other than it being prophecy, he is the villain in the next book and is responsible for the genocide of trillions.
Oh, and let's not forget that he sneaks away from the palace without his protective guards to visit some pointless dwarf who apparently wants to kill him. As Paul leaves the dwarf's house, someone drops a mini-nuke on him. Paul survives and is blinded while members of his guard, who weren't supposed to even be there since Paul snuck away without them, are killed and maimed. Nothing in the Dune series made any sense at all. There is nothing to connect readers to the characters. I was honestly so perplexed by the Dune books that I cannot fathom how they became popular.
In contrast, the Dwarves in Rings of Power wonderfully exhibit the stubborn and strong traits that Tolkien described of the dwarves. The interaction between Durin and Elrond was something that made the characters seem human (in that they are relatable). Amazon gave these characters depth. Even the orcs, in later episodes are much more dynamic and real compared to the mostly mindless and not so scary orcs in the Peter Jackson films. These orcs have feelings, can admire, worship, and exhibit concern for each other. Not to mention, they are strong and are wonderfully frightening!
I do, however, agree with you about the troll scene. That was over the top and unbelievable. The Galadriel in LOTR and the one in RoP are portrayed differently for sure. However, there are thousands of years difference there. Was Galadriel always this ethereal god-like elf? Maybe. But chances are that she learned from experience over thousands of years. The RoP Galadriel is much younger and might not yet have reached the level of wisdom and maturity of her much older future self.
Great review. I'll put this one on the shelf with Wheel of Time and GoT for "stuff that could have been cool but I probably won't ever watch (or wish I hadn't watched, in the case of GoT)."
You and Paul Kingsnorth are my two favorite substackers, both writing greatly informative stuff with surprisingly similar insights about vastly different topics and from vastly different backgrounds.
Thank you for saving me from the irritation I would get had I decided to watch this show!
And here: ‘ He spend years creating infinite background material before writing the actual books, and you felt it.’ Should be ‘spent’. Sorry to be the typo police. I love this article and want it to be perfect. And I’m also a Virgo…
Gosh I’m really enjoying the show! Unrelated but I’m also really enjoying Queens Wish 2. In both cases I think the writing is great. Good article even if I don’t agree, points well made!
Excellent article and very funny. A quick typo to fix: ‘Answer: You relying on Mystery Box writing. ‘
Typo: "This qualities" should be "These qualities"
Is there a way I can report typos without publicly posting?
Thanks. You hit the target right on. Good fantasy is not about swords and cloths and orcs. It is about worldviews. If you lack the culture, or experience to invent a different worldview, no amount of CGI will do it.
Thanks. You hit the target right on. Good fantasy is not about swords and cloths and orcs. It is about worldviews. If you lack the culture, or experience to invent a different worldview, no amount of CGI will do it.
I respectfully disagree with you as well as many folks claiming for the show to adhere strictly to Tolkien's source.
As many praise Peter Jackson's original trilogy, don't get me wrong, i do love them, but they had also adaptations to Peter Jackson's vision of how he wanted to tell the story. And yet many of the same people are bashing the show because it's being adapted.
I do consider myself adept with not just LOTR or hobbit literature, but silmarillion's. And while the show has taken its own path, i do welcome it and have found it very enjoyable, such as the original trilogy, i already know whats it about, but i will watch it again and still get thrilled.
Seeing new content with a different storyteller it's refreshing as I'm waiting to discover new twists. There is a lot of context i would like to be explained as I'm seeing the show and i get my nerd needing to explain who or what they are talking about and the huge relevance, i do miss the epic soundtrack, but i somehow feel this is Tolkien lending his pages for it to be continued, such as Bilbo did with Frodo, and Frodo with Sam. But if I'm just needing the same peter Jackson feel from this new content, i will end up praising peter Jackson and not Tolkien, and not moving on to a new adventure.
Obviously, there has to be a profit out of the huge amounts of money used for it, it is a business, so be it, else I'll start my crowd funding so I can get a show purely from Tolkien's reference. And besides the huge challenge that it takes as silmarillion is mostly a huge thesaurus of references for his master work to culminate in LOTR, he even attempted a sequel, and ended giving up as the master piece was done and not much could be added.
But as said initially, this is in the spirit of having a healthy dialogue with a fellow fan with a different opinion from this show, and no, i will not make fun or throw back hate at you.
So that you don't say I'm just throwing peter Jackson's adaptations out of thin air, in example, isildur's story from the prologue, that was not how it was written, he was not corrupted by the ring, and he was killed while he was travelling to give the ring to Elrond as he couldn't wield and master it and rather hoped for someone wiser to do it, so much for respecting Isildur imo, but "purists" claim now that Isildur went evil.
Perfect. Thanks man.
I wasn’t going to watch it because I assumed I wouldn’t like it (I’m a Tolkien fan), but what the hell. I turned on the first episode last week.
I made it until the troll fight. I thought it was watchable until then. Once I hit the troll fight, though, I thought (apparently correctly): “yeah, this is what I was expecting. Forget it.”
It’s a shame it’s not any good, but I’m glad to see I’m not crazy. I didn’t know how the show was generally received - outside of Substack, there aren’t really any critics left worth reading - so it’s nice to read some confirmation.
I couldn’t have summed up my experience of and reaction to this show more perfectly than you did here.
In one sentence: modern film writers don't know how to write a proper good story.
I would be cautious about dismissing the racist fan element as "8 trolls on Twitter". Have a quick read of metacritic reviews and you'll see plenty of complaints about "enforced diversity" and "woke agendas," the fact is a lot of "fans" have an issue seeing non white actors (or actors who can't pass as white) in their Tolkien.
I personally think representation of diversity in our media is important, and I don't care that much about rigid faithfulness to the source material either, as long as the end result is good and broadly in the spirit of the original.
Unfortunately the end result in this case is definitely not good. I get quite a Star Wars prequels feeling from Rings of Power - sumptuous visuals let down by half baked plots, bad pacing, incoherent logic and clumsy dialogue.
Writing this series would have been a massive task, and the writers were simply not up to the job. All that obscene budget is just wasted because they couldn't get the basics right, unforgivable.
Yea it’s a poorly written show but I’m still hate watching it because I want to see Isildur cut a dude’s ring off. But one note:
“three generations later everyone in that village would be brown”
In our world yes, but this is a work of fiction, and fantasy no less. Skin tones can work any way the writers want. They don’t have to be based on our genetics. They don’t have to be based on genetics at all. They just have to be consistent with the rest of the world. This rationalization is just one more of the type of argument that the racist reactionaries use.
I’m always hesitant to read American fantasy writing - of course it usually has the problem where they just write Tolkien again, but besides not knowing where to get more material to keep it original, they also can’t recreate his “voice” let alone get a better one. So it ends up being childish or obviously their D&D game or just not taking itself seriously like you mentioned here.
British writers are better I think; they’re at least likely to have read the same source material Tolkien did and know what a fairy tale feels like. And not to say it’s all bad, I mean I think your stories were always pretty good!
As for the hobbits’ skin tone, I personally don’t care (it reminds me of that Cinderella movie where all the actors were totally random ethnicities), but genetically almost anything is possible. Like if they were cat-people, they could all have different color or patchwork coats like cats do. Wait, are there tortoiseshell Nephilim?
(Humans living in one area tend to be similar skin tones not because they’re related but because we hadn’t invented sunscreen/multivitamins yet so natural selection found the local optimum tone. Maybe hobbits don’t need Vitamin D.)
Recognizing and respecting the fact that we all have different tastes, opinions, and preference, and that we don't all have to agree with each other, I am still surprised that people uphold Dune as a good book. I listened to the first 3 Dune books and am sad that I can never get those wasted hours back.
The 3 books were rife with major plot holes. Paul, the main character, is COMPLETELY unrelatable. His decisions lacked common sense nor did they make sense within the Dune world and culture. The author upholds Paul as the hero in one book, yet, without any context other than it being prophecy, he is the villain in the next book and is responsible for the genocide of trillions.
Oh, and let's not forget that he sneaks away from the palace without his protective guards to visit some pointless dwarf who apparently wants to kill him. As Paul leaves the dwarf's house, someone drops a mini-nuke on him. Paul survives and is blinded while members of his guard, who weren't supposed to even be there since Paul snuck away without them, are killed and maimed. Nothing in the Dune series made any sense at all. There is nothing to connect readers to the characters. I was honestly so perplexed by the Dune books that I cannot fathom how they became popular.
In contrast, the Dwarves in Rings of Power wonderfully exhibit the stubborn and strong traits that Tolkien described of the dwarves. The interaction between Durin and Elrond was something that made the characters seem human (in that they are relatable). Amazon gave these characters depth. Even the orcs, in later episodes are much more dynamic and real compared to the mostly mindless and not so scary orcs in the Peter Jackson films. These orcs have feelings, can admire, worship, and exhibit concern for each other. Not to mention, they are strong and are wonderfully frightening!
I do, however, agree with you about the troll scene. That was over the top and unbelievable. The Galadriel in LOTR and the one in RoP are portrayed differently for sure. However, there are thousands of years difference there. Was Galadriel always this ethereal god-like elf? Maybe. But chances are that she learned from experience over thousands of years. The RoP Galadriel is much younger and might not yet have reached the level of wisdom and maturity of her much older future self.