Great review. I'll put this one on the shelf with Wheel of Time and GoT for "stuff that could have been cool but I probably won't ever watch (or wish I hadn't watched, in the case of GoT)."
You and Paul Kingsnorth are my two favorite substackers, both writing greatly informative stuff with surprisingly similar insights about vastly different topics and from vastly different backgrounds.
And here: ‘ He spend years creating infinite background material before writing the actual books, and you felt it.’ Should be ‘spent’. Sorry to be the typo police. I love this article and want it to be perfect. And I’m also a Virgo…
Gosh I’m really enjoying the show! Unrelated but I’m also really enjoying Queens Wish 2. In both cases I think the writing is great. Good article even if I don’t agree, points well made!
Thanks. You hit the target right on. Good fantasy is not about swords and cloths and orcs. It is about worldviews. If you lack the culture, or experience to invent a different worldview, no amount of CGI will do it.
Thanks. You hit the target right on. Good fantasy is not about swords and cloths and orcs. It is about worldviews. If you lack the culture, or experience to invent a different worldview, no amount of CGI will do it.
I wasn’t going to watch it because I assumed I wouldn’t like it (I’m a Tolkien fan), but what the hell. I turned on the first episode last week.
I made it until the troll fight. I thought it was watchable until then. Once I hit the troll fight, though, I thought (apparently correctly): “yeah, this is what I was expecting. Forget it.”
It’s a shame it’s not any good, but I’m glad to see I’m not crazy. I didn’t know how the show was generally received - outside of Substack, there aren’t really any critics left worth reading - so it’s nice to read some confirmation.
I it's got sooo much worse.. those Hobbits are the most evil in the show now.. and Numenor , yikes! Galadriel is a menace! Yet, it manages to bore like nothing else, still.. great article, thankyou! I stayed for one more episode than you, I feel you are luckier.. everything you have pointed out is true indeed, it's an affront to talent, passion and fantasy.. e erything wrong with modern media, where it's checkboxes before script, politics before character.. yuck! We MUST stand up to this onslaught, we can't accept the evil at our door, subverting our culture, we've already lost our ancestral cultures to the church and state, let us not loose our fantasy!!!
I respectfully disagree with you as well as many folks claiming for the show to adhere strictly to Tolkien's source.
As many praise Peter Jackson's original trilogy, don't get me wrong, i do love them, but they had also adaptations to Peter Jackson's vision of how he wanted to tell the story. And yet many of the same people are bashing the show because it's being adapted.
I do consider myself adept with not just LOTR or hobbit literature, but silmarillion's. And while the show has taken its own path, i do welcome it and have found it very enjoyable, such as the original trilogy, i already know whats it about, but i will watch it again and still get thrilled.
Seeing new content with a different storyteller it's refreshing as I'm waiting to discover new twists. There is a lot of context i would like to be explained as I'm seeing the show and i get my nerd needing to explain who or what they are talking about and the huge relevance, i do miss the epic soundtrack, but i somehow feel this is Tolkien lending his pages for it to be continued, such as Bilbo did with Frodo, and Frodo with Sam. But if I'm just needing the same peter Jackson feel from this new content, i will end up praising peter Jackson and not Tolkien, and not moving on to a new adventure.
Obviously, there has to be a profit out of the huge amounts of money used for it, it is a business, so be it, else I'll start my crowd funding so I can get a show purely from Tolkien's reference. And besides the huge challenge that it takes as silmarillion is mostly a huge thesaurus of references for his master work to culminate in LOTR, he even attempted a sequel, and ended giving up as the master piece was done and not much could be added.
But as said initially, this is in the spirit of having a healthy dialogue with a fellow fan with a different opinion from this show, and no, i will not make fun or throw back hate at you.
So that you don't say I'm just throwing peter Jackson's adaptations out of thin air, in example, isildur's story from the prologue, that was not how it was written, he was not corrupted by the ring, and he was killed while he was travelling to give the ring to Elrond as he couldn't wield and master it and rather hoped for someone wiser to do it, so much for respecting Isildur imo, but "purists" claim now that Isildur went evil.
This was a measured, informed, and thoughtful essay. Thanks! And it also made me laugh in places!
And more recently, we had a big battle in an episode which at least spared us a lot of crappy dialogue despite being gratuitously bloody (naturally), so that held some interest, and then at the end a volcano blew up -- cool! Mount Doom awoke. That was exciting. Except the very next episode starts with almost all the characters having somehow survived a volcano blowing up in their faces and burying the little settlement in fire and ash. This was beyond ridiculous.
Followed by a return to the meaningless bickering, fortune-cookie platitudes, and general girlboss shriekiness that has dominated the series.
Simply the best and most objective review of the show I've read yet. Of all the people who disagreed with your thoughtful and carefully laid out objections and examples of the show's poor writing and execution, none of them have bothered to refute any of your points. It's as if they are ok with product because product is expected to be good and therefore it must be.
Great review. I'll put this one on the shelf with Wheel of Time and GoT for "stuff that could have been cool but I probably won't ever watch (or wish I hadn't watched, in the case of GoT)."
You and Paul Kingsnorth are my two favorite substackers, both writing greatly informative stuff with surprisingly similar insights about vastly different topics and from vastly different backgrounds.
Thank you for saving me from the irritation I would get had I decided to watch this show!
And here: ‘ He spend years creating infinite background material before writing the actual books, and you felt it.’ Should be ‘spent’. Sorry to be the typo police. I love this article and want it to be perfect. And I’m also a Virgo…
Gosh I’m really enjoying the show! Unrelated but I’m also really enjoying Queens Wish 2. In both cases I think the writing is great. Good article even if I don’t agree, points well made!
Excellent article and very funny. A quick typo to fix: ‘Answer: You relying on Mystery Box writing. ‘
Typo: "This qualities" should be "These qualities"
Is there a way I can report typos without publicly posting?
Thanks. You hit the target right on. Good fantasy is not about swords and cloths and orcs. It is about worldviews. If you lack the culture, or experience to invent a different worldview, no amount of CGI will do it.
Thanks. You hit the target right on. Good fantasy is not about swords and cloths and orcs. It is about worldviews. If you lack the culture, or experience to invent a different worldview, no amount of CGI will do it.
Perfect. Thanks man.
I wasn’t going to watch it because I assumed I wouldn’t like it (I’m a Tolkien fan), but what the hell. I turned on the first episode last week.
I made it until the troll fight. I thought it was watchable until then. Once I hit the troll fight, though, I thought (apparently correctly): “yeah, this is what I was expecting. Forget it.”
It’s a shame it’s not any good, but I’m glad to see I’m not crazy. I didn’t know how the show was generally received - outside of Substack, there aren’t really any critics left worth reading - so it’s nice to read some confirmation.
I couldn’t have summed up my experience of and reaction to this show more perfectly than you did here.
In one sentence: modern film writers don't know how to write a proper good story.
I it's got sooo much worse.. those Hobbits are the most evil in the show now.. and Numenor , yikes! Galadriel is a menace! Yet, it manages to bore like nothing else, still.. great article, thankyou! I stayed for one more episode than you, I feel you are luckier.. everything you have pointed out is true indeed, it's an affront to talent, passion and fantasy.. e erything wrong with modern media, where it's checkboxes before script, politics before character.. yuck! We MUST stand up to this onslaught, we can't accept the evil at our door, subverting our culture, we've already lost our ancestral cultures to the church and state, let us not loose our fantasy!!!
I respectfully disagree with you as well as many folks claiming for the show to adhere strictly to Tolkien's source.
As many praise Peter Jackson's original trilogy, don't get me wrong, i do love them, but they had also adaptations to Peter Jackson's vision of how he wanted to tell the story. And yet many of the same people are bashing the show because it's being adapted.
I do consider myself adept with not just LOTR or hobbit literature, but silmarillion's. And while the show has taken its own path, i do welcome it and have found it very enjoyable, such as the original trilogy, i already know whats it about, but i will watch it again and still get thrilled.
Seeing new content with a different storyteller it's refreshing as I'm waiting to discover new twists. There is a lot of context i would like to be explained as I'm seeing the show and i get my nerd needing to explain who or what they are talking about and the huge relevance, i do miss the epic soundtrack, but i somehow feel this is Tolkien lending his pages for it to be continued, such as Bilbo did with Frodo, and Frodo with Sam. But if I'm just needing the same peter Jackson feel from this new content, i will end up praising peter Jackson and not Tolkien, and not moving on to a new adventure.
Obviously, there has to be a profit out of the huge amounts of money used for it, it is a business, so be it, else I'll start my crowd funding so I can get a show purely from Tolkien's reference. And besides the huge challenge that it takes as silmarillion is mostly a huge thesaurus of references for his master work to culminate in LOTR, he even attempted a sequel, and ended giving up as the master piece was done and not much could be added.
But as said initially, this is in the spirit of having a healthy dialogue with a fellow fan with a different opinion from this show, and no, i will not make fun or throw back hate at you.
So that you don't say I'm just throwing peter Jackson's adaptations out of thin air, in example, isildur's story from the prologue, that was not how it was written, he was not corrupted by the ring, and he was killed while he was travelling to give the ring to Elrond as he couldn't wield and master it and rather hoped for someone wiser to do it, so much for respecting Isildur imo, but "purists" claim now that Isildur went evil.
Great, down to Earth review, thanks for this.
This was a measured, informed, and thoughtful essay. Thanks! And it also made me laugh in places!
And more recently, we had a big battle in an episode which at least spared us a lot of crappy dialogue despite being gratuitously bloody (naturally), so that held some interest, and then at the end a volcano blew up -- cool! Mount Doom awoke. That was exciting. Except the very next episode starts with almost all the characters having somehow survived a volcano blowing up in their faces and burying the little settlement in fire and ash. This was beyond ridiculous.
Followed by a return to the meaningless bickering, fortune-cookie platitudes, and general girlboss shriekiness that has dominated the series.
Oh, and Galadriel's husband is dead. What th--???
Simply the best and most objective review of the show I've read yet. Of all the people who disagreed with your thoughtful and carefully laid out objections and examples of the show's poor writing and execution, none of them have bothered to refute any of your points. It's as if they are ok with product because product is expected to be good and therefore it must be.